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	<title>Comments on: Sermon retention &#8211; how effective in the long term?</title>
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		<title>By: Keith Kilmer</title>
		<link>http://keithlancaster.com/2009/09/sermon-retention-how-effective-in-the-long-term/comment-page-1/#comment-573</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Kilmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 21:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithlancaster.com/?p=225#comment-573</guid>
		<description>Keith - 

It helps me to view sermons as being to the soul what good nutrition is to the body. I can&#039;t rember exactly what I had to eat a week ago last Sunday but I was still nurished by it. 

I suppose all of us preachers hit home runs from time to time that are memorable and lasting, but more often than not its feeding our congregations a consistent diet of healthy teaching that makes the difference in their spiritual formation.

Thanks for posing the question.

-Keith</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith &#8211; </p>
<p>It helps me to view sermons as being to the soul what good nutrition is to the body. I can&#8217;t rember exactly what I had to eat a week ago last Sunday but I was still nurished by it. </p>
<p>I suppose all of us preachers hit home runs from time to time that are memorable and lasting, but more often than not its feeding our congregations a consistent diet of healthy teaching that makes the difference in their spiritual formation.</p>
<p>Thanks for posing the question.</p>
<p>-Keith</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://keithlancaster.com/2009/09/sermon-retention-how-effective-in-the-long-term/comment-page-1/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:04:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithlancaster.com/?p=225#comment-169</guid>
		<description>It sounds like effectiveness comes from a holistic understanding of all of the factors, including the overall atmosphere.  Great comments, Brad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds like effectiveness comes from a holistic understanding of all of the factors, including the overall atmosphere.  Great comments, Brad.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Stanford</title>
		<link>http://keithlancaster.com/2009/09/sermon-retention-how-effective-in-the-long-term/comment-page-1/#comment-167</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Stanford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithlancaster.com/?p=225#comment-167</guid>
		<description>Revelation is memorable. I remember a sermon from Carey Dowl in 1995 about cities under siege. He said things in that sermon that are just now being talked about in larger circles. Really eye-opening stuff for the church. Very memorable.

The greatness of God is memorable. What He is doing in your own congregation, town, or brotherhood is memorable. What he has done throughout history is memorable, and encouraging. What He is doing around the world (even outside the CofC!) is memorable.

Conviction is memorable. Not the &quot;...or else burn&quot; kind of conviction, though we all seem to remember those as well. What I mean is when God reveals to you through a sermon something that you&#039;ve been dancing around, or maybe even couldn&#039;t define clearly. The sermon brings it into focus. When I was starting my business years ago, I was faithful in following God for 6 months, but there was still no income. I was ready to give up. Rick Atchley preached a message on Abraham, and how if he had stayed in the promised land during the famine, he would&#039;ve never had trouble with the king of Egypt, i.e., lying about his wife to the king. I was encouraged, and my business thrives to this day. I was convicted to stay faithful, and I remember it clearly, even remembering it was a Wednesday night.

Maximum effectiveness of any sermon is also based on the atmosphere and/or amount of life-giving power found in the congregation. Is the congregation a safe place to talk about revelation, the greatness of God, or to be convicted? Is there life flowing through the congregation before and/or without the sermon? Sometimes, no on one or more of these points. That should be considered as much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Revelation is memorable. I remember a sermon from Carey Dowl in 1995 about cities under siege. He said things in that sermon that are just now being talked about in larger circles. Really eye-opening stuff for the church. Very memorable.</p>
<p>The greatness of God is memorable. What He is doing in your own congregation, town, or brotherhood is memorable. What he has done throughout history is memorable, and encouraging. What He is doing around the world (even outside the CofC!) is memorable.</p>
<p>Conviction is memorable. Not the &#8220;&#8230;or else burn&#8221; kind of conviction, though we all seem to remember those as well. What I mean is when God reveals to you through a sermon something that you&#8217;ve been dancing around, or maybe even couldn&#8217;t define clearly. The sermon brings it into focus. When I was starting my business years ago, I was faithful in following God for 6 months, but there was still no income. I was ready to give up. Rick Atchley preached a message on Abraham, and how if he had stayed in the promised land during the famine, he would&#8217;ve never had trouble with the king of Egypt, i.e., lying about his wife to the king. I was encouraged, and my business thrives to this day. I was convicted to stay faithful, and I remember it clearly, even remembering it was a Wednesday night.</p>
<p>Maximum effectiveness of any sermon is also based on the atmosphere and/or amount of life-giving power found in the congregation. Is the congregation a safe place to talk about revelation, the greatness of God, or to be convicted? Is there life flowing through the congregation before and/or without the sermon? Sometimes, no on one or more of these points. That should be considered as much.</p>
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		<title>By: G</title>
		<link>http://keithlancaster.com/2009/09/sermon-retention-how-effective-in-the-long-term/comment-page-1/#comment-128</link>
		<dc:creator>G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 01:57:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithlancaster.com/?p=225#comment-128</guid>
		<description>Sorry I&#039;m late in getting this posted, but at least I remembered.  Yes, that pun was intended.

I have recently begun learning the French language.  Why I chose this in the midst of doctoral studies, I have no idea, but if all goes as planned I will have a new language under my belt by the time I have another degree under my belt.  One thing I realized early on (just intuitively kinda thought thru this, then had it validated as I began) is the language is learned primarily from auditory signals and neural pathway established through the combination of hearing a language and speaking it yourself.  We all were able to communicate before we attended school and learned to read and write.  That was a good thing to realize and have confirmed since I planned on doing most of my study / practice during drive times in my car.

Before I invested in any software (have almost settled on Tell Me More from Auralog) I decided to just do some free stuff at the library.  The CD I got from Berlitz was the most hokey thing I had ever listened to.  If that&#039;s what it took to learn a language I was gonna quit in the first week.  It had you singing these odd little songs that even a 1st grader would recognize as lame.  Then the next CD was definitely cooler.  It reenacted a plane ride and the guy had 50 words down before the plane landed.  The &quot;skit&quot; was well executed and fun to listen to, but realistically the guy had a bit of a running start in that it was clear that he already knew many basics of the language, but I could see where listening to that CD 4 or 5 times thru you would have those words down.

Then I found Pimsleur.  Voila!  (That&#039;s French for voila.)  Dr. Pimsleur has done a lot of research.  (Here&#039;s where I tie it back into your post.)  Retention comes thru repetition, but the repetition has to be timed correctly.  If you repeat something back to back like 10-20 times, you&#039;ll get bored right away, but if you wait 10-20 minutes later the likelihood that you will remember something that&#039;s brand new and you&#039;ve never heard before is slim.  The key is to repeat the item to be learned at the correct interval where it is still in the memory banks but not too soon.  The next time it will need to be repeated will be longer, and that process continues until finally the brain can recall it no matter the period since the word or phrase was last heard.  I don&#039;t know the exact numbers, and it varies per person, but just use 30 seconds to start with.  You will hear the brand new word or phrase for the first time.  Within 30 seconds you need to hear it again or be asked to voice it yourself or you will lose it.  But the next time you won&#039;t need to hear it until a minute has elapsed, then 2, then 4, then 8, then 15, then 30, and by then the lesson is over.  The next lesson (the next day) would begin with a review of the entirety of the previous lesson but integrated in such a way the new words begin to be introduced as the old ones are rehearsed such that the lesson doesn&#039;t become a boring repeat of the previous lesson.

Okay, now regarding sermons.  The best preachers and the best sermons do this either instinctively or by proper instruction in preaching technique.  The same thing is true of a well-written paper.  You tell them what you&#039;re gonna tell them (introduction), you tell them (the body of the paper / sermon), and then you tell them what you told them.  And of course you limit what you try to communicate as well.  I&#039;ve heard that anything past 45 minutes is a movie...

There are sermons I can remember from 20 years ago (not in details, but the key points), and there are snippets from sermons I remember along the way.  e.g., I remember Steve Vrooman (who was Central&#039;s missionary to Kazakhstan for a while) preached before he and his family left for the mission field, and he drove the number 7 home with me.  A person has to receive at least 7 invitations before they will attend an event with you.  A baby Christian has to have 7 independent relationships to stay healthy within the body.  Other things he said I don&#039;t remember, but 7 stuck with me.  I also remember Gary Bradley&#039;s &quot;rules for fighting fair&quot; from back in 1984.  I pass that advice along to so many young people I know (and live by it myself), and I look so smart for saying so, but it all came from Gary Bradley.

I&#039;m not sure if this is helpful or not, but it occurs to me that if an eldership has a significant matter they want to drill home with a local church and be certain that as many members as possible retain the message, then our &quot;natural&quot; set of meeting times could very readily do that.  The morning sermon (perhaps introduced in morning class times as well) could be the initial communication.  The evening service would be a reminder of what was learned, then Wednesday evening could be reinforcement of the lesson.  Perhaps it&#039;s revisited a month or so later with a special meal or assembly time, but that repetition is what is necessary for retention.  If people aren&#039;t otherwise retaining things, it&#039;s just because that&#039;s the way the human brain works.  It&#039;s not a one shot deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry I&#8217;m late in getting this posted, but at least I remembered.  Yes, that pun was intended.</p>
<p>I have recently begun learning the French language.  Why I chose this in the midst of doctoral studies, I have no idea, but if all goes as planned I will have a new language under my belt by the time I have another degree under my belt.  One thing I realized early on (just intuitively kinda thought thru this, then had it validated as I began) is the language is learned primarily from auditory signals and neural pathway established through the combination of hearing a language and speaking it yourself.  We all were able to communicate before we attended school and learned to read and write.  That was a good thing to realize and have confirmed since I planned on doing most of my study / practice during drive times in my car.</p>
<p>Before I invested in any software (have almost settled on Tell Me More from Auralog) I decided to just do some free stuff at the library.  The CD I got from Berlitz was the most hokey thing I had ever listened to.  If that&#8217;s what it took to learn a language I was gonna quit in the first week.  It had you singing these odd little songs that even a 1st grader would recognize as lame.  Then the next CD was definitely cooler.  It reenacted a plane ride and the guy had 50 words down before the plane landed.  The &#8220;skit&#8221; was well executed and fun to listen to, but realistically the guy had a bit of a running start in that it was clear that he already knew many basics of the language, but I could see where listening to that CD 4 or 5 times thru you would have those words down.</p>
<p>Then I found Pimsleur.  Voila!  (That&#8217;s French for voila.)  Dr. Pimsleur has done a lot of research.  (Here&#8217;s where I tie it back into your post.)  Retention comes thru repetition, but the repetition has to be timed correctly.  If you repeat something back to back like 10-20 times, you&#8217;ll get bored right away, but if you wait 10-20 minutes later the likelihood that you will remember something that&#8217;s brand new and you&#8217;ve never heard before is slim.  The key is to repeat the item to be learned at the correct interval where it is still in the memory banks but not too soon.  The next time it will need to be repeated will be longer, and that process continues until finally the brain can recall it no matter the period since the word or phrase was last heard.  I don&#8217;t know the exact numbers, and it varies per person, but just use 30 seconds to start with.  You will hear the brand new word or phrase for the first time.  Within 30 seconds you need to hear it again or be asked to voice it yourself or you will lose it.  But the next time you won&#8217;t need to hear it until a minute has elapsed, then 2, then 4, then 8, then 15, then 30, and by then the lesson is over.  The next lesson (the next day) would begin with a review of the entirety of the previous lesson but integrated in such a way the new words begin to be introduced as the old ones are rehearsed such that the lesson doesn&#8217;t become a boring repeat of the previous lesson.</p>
<p>Okay, now regarding sermons.  The best preachers and the best sermons do this either instinctively or by proper instruction in preaching technique.  The same thing is true of a well-written paper.  You tell them what you&#8217;re gonna tell them (introduction), you tell them (the body of the paper / sermon), and then you tell them what you told them.  And of course you limit what you try to communicate as well.  I&#8217;ve heard that anything past 45 minutes is a movie&#8230;</p>
<p>There are sermons I can remember from 20 years ago (not in details, but the key points), and there are snippets from sermons I remember along the way.  e.g., I remember Steve Vrooman (who was Central&#8217;s missionary to Kazakhstan for a while) preached before he and his family left for the mission field, and he drove the number 7 home with me.  A person has to receive at least 7 invitations before they will attend an event with you.  A baby Christian has to have 7 independent relationships to stay healthy within the body.  Other things he said I don&#8217;t remember, but 7 stuck with me.  I also remember Gary Bradley&#8217;s &#8220;rules for fighting fair&#8221; from back in 1984.  I pass that advice along to so many young people I know (and live by it myself), and I look so smart for saying so, but it all came from Gary Bradley.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure if this is helpful or not, but it occurs to me that if an eldership has a significant matter they want to drill home with a local church and be certain that as many members as possible retain the message, then our &#8220;natural&#8221; set of meeting times could very readily do that.  The morning sermon (perhaps introduced in morning class times as well) could be the initial communication.  The evening service would be a reminder of what was learned, then Wednesday evening could be reinforcement of the lesson.  Perhaps it&#8217;s revisited a month or so later with a special meal or assembly time, but that repetition is what is necessary for retention.  If people aren&#8217;t otherwise retaining things, it&#8217;s just because that&#8217;s the way the human brain works.  It&#8217;s not a one shot deal.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://keithlancaster.com/2009/09/sermon-retention-how-effective-in-the-long-term/comment-page-1/#comment-84</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithlancaster.com/?p=225#comment-84</guid>
		<description>David, I&#039;m glad that churches are working on helping people grasp and retain more of the message.  Let us know how well it works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, I&#8217;m glad that churches are working on helping people grasp and retain more of the message.  Let us know how well it works.</p>
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		<title>By: David Studer</title>
		<link>http://keithlancaster.com/2009/09/sermon-retention-how-effective-in-the-long-term/comment-page-1/#comment-83</link>
		<dc:creator>David Studer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithlancaster.com/?p=225#comment-83</guid>
		<description>Keith, 
For the last 3 years we have been attempting to go from being an established to a purely evangelistic congregation. Our classes and sermons have attempted to all come from the same material so there is continuity. Even our Wednesday night classes are directly tied to fulfilling this endeavor. So, hopefully, the retention has been greater than usual. (This all from the preachers perspective.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith,<br />
For the last 3 years we have been attempting to go from being an established to a purely evangelistic congregation. Our classes and sermons have attempted to all come from the same material so there is continuity. Even our Wednesday night classes are directly tied to fulfilling this endeavor. So, hopefully, the retention has been greater than usual. (This all from the preachers perspective.)</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://keithlancaster.com/2009/09/sermon-retention-how-effective-in-the-long-term/comment-page-1/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithlancaster.com/?p=225#comment-37</guid>
		<description>Very good point, Michael.  You remember the messages you prepared, because we tend to remember what we &quot;do,&quot; more than what we hear.  I like the focus of combining messages with small groups and classes.  I also think people benefit when they take notes.  

Laurel is blessed to have you as their preacher!  I thought about you Sunday as we stopped at a Chipotle.  I also told the folks in Sherman about how many songs you introduced last year.  Tell everyone hello for us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good point, Michael.  You remember the messages you prepared, because we tend to remember what we &#8220;do,&#8221; more than what we hear.  I like the focus of combining messages with small groups and classes.  I also think people benefit when they take notes.  </p>
<p>Laurel is blessed to have you as their preacher!  I thought about you Sunday as we stopped at a Chipotle.  I also told the folks in Sherman about how many songs you introduced last year.  Tell everyone hello for us.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Ray</title>
		<link>http://keithlancaster.com/2009/09/sermon-retention-how-effective-in-the-long-term/comment-page-1/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithlancaster.com/?p=225#comment-33</guid>
		<description>Well, I tend to remember sermons for a long time. Of course, maybe that doesn&#039;t count since I&#039;m usually only hearing sermons that I preach. 

I do think we communicate too many different topics during the week-- one subject in Sunday School, another in the the morning sermon, another topic in the evening sermon and still another on Wednesday night. Using small groups as we do allows us to really hone in on the Sunday message and its application.

Still, I know from experience that most people won&#039;t remember the sermons a few years from now but they may very well remember the illustrations I use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I tend to remember sermons for a long time. Of course, maybe that doesn&#8217;t count since I&#8217;m usually only hearing sermons that I preach. </p>
<p>I do think we communicate too many different topics during the week&#8211; one subject in Sunday School, another in the the morning sermon, another topic in the evening sermon and still another on Wednesday night. Using small groups as we do allows us to really hone in on the Sunday message and its application.</p>
<p>Still, I know from experience that most people won&#8217;t remember the sermons a few years from now but they may very well remember the illustrations I use.</p>
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